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Author Topic: The Great White Whale Restoration  (Read 13562 times)

Offline Shawn McClure

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2016, 10:18:56 pm »
Haha.  Hopefully both ships are going to turn out great.

Shawn
To build or not to build.... that is the question.   The answer.... build... Duh.

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2016, 08:02:22 am »
Just kidding, Commander Shawn! :D

I know your ship will be awesome!

Thanks again for the recognition of the difficulty of the work!

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2016, 07:21:30 pm »
Welcome and Thanks for reading!
So I'd separated the two halves and finished them off a bit; still using acrylic bit, a Dremel and various grit of sandpaper.
1. This is a dorsal view of the Ventral Secondary Hull. I know the seams are a bit..uhm…unseemly, but once I start cementing the halves together, I'll fix them with putty.

2. The Port view…

3. …and the Starboard.

 Here is where it starts to get interesting. I used the Casimiro plans and measured the distance from the Aft of the Interconnecting Dorsal to the Bow of the pylon support opening. Once I scaled it up, I found the opening is supposed to be a distance of 3.5cm. So taking this measurement to the Round2 spare, I was very close in measurements. "Fabulous!" I thought. So I measured the opening and even got the slope from the midline. I was set. Until I noticed the interior of the ventral halves. The opening was nearly a centimeter CLOSER to the Interconnecting Dorsal.  Great!

4. Here is a side by side comparison of the V6 and the Round2 Hulls!

5. I borrowed this picture from Shaw's site http://federationreference.prophpbb.com/topic752.html and there it was; staring me in the face. The physical evidence that Round2 molds had redesigned the pylon openings!

So now I have a decision to make and I thought I would ask your input. I am torn between a restoration of this model, meaning I place the pylon openings where they were designed originally, OR mod the build making it a not-restoration.

Whaddayathink?

I think I should do the restoration, but, now that I have my own build to look at, the two will look weird next to each other. As well they should!

Let me know what you think!

I look forward to reading your inputs and thoughts! 

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline Tankton

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2016, 07:30:05 pm »
I myself would do it as a Restoration. As it was originally designed.
Showing the differences between the two is what I would shoot for.
To show how the kit changed over the years.
Live Long and Prosper

Cameron Lewis Sr.

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Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2016, 12:53:19 pm »
Cameron, Thanks for the input. I was kinda leaning towards keeping it a "restoration" anyway - just didn't want to work that hard to get the measurements close to their intended design.

Know of anyone who has blueprints to 1/650 scale for the V6?  ;)

Weelllp, time to dig out the ruler, compass, and protractor!  :P

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #20 on: January 15, 2016, 07:19:47 am »
So I ran into a set back with the Whale. For the first time, Millput has let me down. Of course I blame the Millput – not the mixer – that would be just…wrong. ;)

When I went to scribe the openings for the pylon support and I noticed the Millput was still soft. I guess either I didn’t get an equal amount of catalyst in the mix or I didn’t mix them as well as I thought. Interesting that it was only on one side of the secondary hull (Starboard) didn''t set and but the Port side did. O.o?

1. Here is the picture. The gouges are where I was testing it with my fingernail.

Unless one or a few of you sage modelers knows of any tricks to harden Millput (I have thought of using a hair dryer but am cautious about using heat and warping the plastic again) then I will have to dig it out, since it will clog a bur, and attempt another addition.

Till then, I still need to create the end of the pylon support on the nacelle pylons. I am thinking of trying to duplicate the Round2 Pylons with Millput (or something similar) and plaster – it’s a technique I used to use in Dental Lab. I am still not sure if I should use Millput, or Epoxy Resin or some monomer and polymer (materials used to create false fingernails) mixture.

Whaddayathink?

Here are some pics of the GWW pylons and the Round2 spares that I have showing the differences in length.

2. Pylon Tip 1

3. Pylon Tip 2 – It looks like I need to have a 3.25” length. There does seem to be an 1/8th of an inch taper toward the rear – something I want to preserve on the GWW pylons.

4. Pylon Tip 3

5. Pylon Tip 4 – as you can see, the pylons are a bit short.

Any tips or suggestions on how to proceed?

As always, I appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Thanks for reading,

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline Shawn McClure

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2016, 07:55:39 am »
That sucks about that millput stuff that you used. Hopefully somebody will post some solutions for stuff.  Looking good so far though.  Hang in there.

Shawn
To build or not to build.... that is the question.   The answer.... build... Duh.

Offline Shaw

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #22 on: January 15, 2016, 09:55:42 am »
Looks like you are doing a great job on this restoration!

If you're planning on bringing her back to original 1960's condition, you could use my restored decal graphics...


JT Graphics can make a sheet for you using the EPS file, or you can use either the large JPEG or EPS to laser print on clear decal sheets (I've been printing my graphics at Kinko's).

Part of the reason I made this sheet is that AMT took Matt Jefferies' reference drawings and transferred them straight onto the decal sheet... so even though they aren't perfect font type, it is sorta like having Jefferies' signature on the model.

Even though my plans for the 1966 AMT Enterprise aren't done yet, they are far enough along to help with decal placement...


And you can find a lot of my raw data collection images in this directory on my site.

Again, great job on this model!

Offline trekriffic

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2016, 02:32:14 pm »
This is a big job. Hopefully your sanity will remain intact and see you thru to the finish!
Steve

Him: "Chinese voices in his head? That's a little weird."
Her: "But... you hear voices don't you?"
Him: "Not Chinese!"

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2016, 04:21:49 pm »
Hey Guys,

Thanks for the support, comments and input!
 
Shawn, I was hoping someone would post a fix, but I began to accept the inevitable and cut it all off with an Exacto blade - I don't think there was any saving it - it flaked off in my hands. :/

Shaw - WOW! What a great resource this is and your site as well!  As you might have read, I followed your thread about the AMT 1966 analysis, but didn't know you had THIS much data on the '66! I appreciate the decals and the drawings. Thanks!

Trekriffic - A sane person may not have started this job - but so far it has been an enjoyable restore and I THINK I am still sane!

Like I mentioned above, the Millput flaked off with an Exacto knife. I did some research and figured I hadn't mixed it properly or long enough. Even the Millput website recommends mixing it for AT LEAST 5 minutes - something I didn't do last time. So tip for the day - RTM!! Read the Manual!!

1. I was able to get most of the first Millput off the model and was able to get back to my finish line. Port view.

2. Starboard. I am glad it came off so well. I didn't want the old to contaminate the new layer of Millput.

3. I mixed the catalyst and base for the required amount of time - and even longer! I don't want to have to do this a third time!

4. This is a photo from the next day. The stuff set, just like it was supposed to, and it is sanding down nicely! One thing I noticed on the model after I had cut away the bad stuff and prior to adding the new, the structural integrity of the model was very poor; I was afraid I would further damage the model because I had taken away so much bulk. But now, with the added bulk of the Millput, the integrity of the model is sturdier.

Now to go back to the drawing board and re-mark the nacelle openings, make the attachment receptacle and duplicate the Round2 pylon supports!

Speaking of support, thanks guys for yours! I am seeing this model as a really cool addition to my model collection of 1!

Thanks again! Till next time!

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2016, 07:43:57 am »
Another step forward –

1. So, I reapplied the Millput and, after proper mixing, it set to it’s promised hardness. I re-measured the planned slots for the pylon supports on the secondary hull. Here is after I had completed the measurements and had removed the blue masking tape from the hull.

2. Apologies for the poor flash photography, but I was trying to show the slot in the hull. I used a drill bit to create a hole through which I could widen out with my Dremel and burs. A majority of the cutting was with the burs but the corners I finished off with some files.

3. I did a test fitting with the Round2 spares to check alignment. I noticed the Interconnecting Dorsal is not exactly perpendicular to the plane of the saucer. Some issues might be considered normal, but this much is a bit too much. I’ll have to do some work on both the pylons and the slots to get the proper angle.

4. This is the ventral view with the vental secondary hull removed. I was really excited to see that I had placed the slots in the same place as the design engineer’s had. WooHoo!!

Now I have to add the internal support on the interior of the hull – similar to Round2’s engineering. I also have to creatively duplicate the pylon male portion on the Nacelles before I can even begin assembly. Then…THEN…I can start on the Saucer and interconnecting dorsals.
If you, ardent reader, will allow me, I think I will follow a white rabbit for a bit! I really seem to enjoy the repair aspect of this hobby. Trying to figure out how to restore/repair a model is, at best, distracting and fascinating! At worst, it borders on insanity and obsessive compulsion! But, when you see something in your hand that didn’t exist or something damaged that you have freed from its restraints gives one the feeling not unlike the joy of birth!

The only minor fear is that the restore or repair will not turn out the way you envisioned it! ;D

Oh, well! Till then – take joy in the journey and enjoy the build!

Model on!

Steve
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 07:45:45 am by MSgtUSAFRet »
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline Shawn McClure

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2016, 07:52:12 am »
Lookin' good so far Steve.  Looks like you are getting close.

Shawn
To build or not to build.... that is the question.   The answer.... build... Duh.

Offline trekker9211

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2016, 11:43:38 am »
Nice recovery on this Steve. I wish I still had some of my older builds. 8)
Phil

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #28 on: January 25, 2016, 07:39:18 am »
Happy Monday Everybody!

Thanks, Shawn and Phil on the encouraging words! This restore and build has really challenged me to think outside the box – and to do so 3-dimensionally!

In previous posts I had speculated about how to best restore a support system for the pylons. But this weekend I had the chance to pick up materials and make a first pass at making the tabs for the pylons. I went to a beauty supply store and picked-up some fake finger-nail polymer (powder) and nail liquid (monomer). I had some plaster of paris I could use and most of the other items I used I had on hand.

1. This is the plan. I would use the spare Round2 pylon to make an impression of the male tab portion. I used a carpenter nail bulk packages, actually 2 of them, to hold the plaster while I made the impression. Cardboard would absorb the water from the plaster too quickly and make the stone set too quickly. That’s  the reason for the plastic packaging.

2. I filled the packaging with a bulk of stone and then, after painted stone onto the pylon itself to capture the detail, I gently laid the painted pylon into the wet stone supporting it with the storage lids. Here I also had to make sure there were no undercuts in the stone or in the pylon so the second stone half would separate from the first.

3. I applied liberal amounts of separator, Vaseline, to the first half so the second half wouldn’t bond with the first. I also used Vaseline to fill any holes in the first half as well as blockout some minor undercuts I had. I took the second bulk nail packaging and cut the bottom out to allow me access to pour the second half. I made another mix of stone and, after painting the exposed pylon with wet stone, taped the second package to the first and quickly filled the second half with the stone.

3a. While the stone was setting, I prepped the GWW pylon to allow for a finish line and to allow more surface for the fingernail acrylic to grab.

4.  Then, I separated the two halves and took out the spare Round2 pylon. This left me to halves of the impression. I applied liberal amounts of Vaseline to the second half and blocked out undercuts. I mixed up an approximate 2:1 polymer to monomer acrylic until I got the consistency of warm butter. Working quickly, as the acrylic set time was around 5 minutes, I painted the GWW pylon with wet acrylic and then set it in the first half. Placing the remaining wet acrylic, which was now like play-do consistency, I carefully placed the second half over the first and gently closed the two together. I placed a C-clamp around the mold to help combat expansion. (Didn’t know if there would be any, but didn’t want to take a chance.

5. After about 35 minutes and constantly checking a small sample of the same batch for hardness, I opened the mold and, after cleaning off the gross flash, here is the restored pylon support tab.

6. The second pylon needed some additional reinforcement as it didn’t have enough surface area for the new acrylic to grab on to. I had some old dremel burs I had broken the head of during use, and superglued them to the inside of the GWW pylon.

7. Once I had glued the second pylon back together, I used the same process to create the support tab on the second pylon. Here are the two pylons together. I still need to do some finishing and sanding before they are ready to assemble, but at least I have something to work with now.


Apologies for the long post, but I thought you might be interested in the  process I used to make the tabs.

Hope you enjoyed reading!

Your comments, insights and input are always appreciated!

Steve
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 07:41:09 am by MSgtUSAFRet »
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline Shawn McClure

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Re: The Great White Whale Restoration
« Reply #29 on: January 25, 2016, 08:14:35 am »
Wow,  I didn't know something like this was even possible.  Very cool Steve.  You really are doing a great job with this stuff.

Shawn
To build or not to build.... that is the question.   The answer.... build... Duh.

 




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