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Author Topic: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!  (Read 3617 times)

Offline Quarky

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2017, 03:21:08 pm »
I'm surprised your LEDs are failing... What voltage are you running through them? If it's too high, that might be the answer to your issue.
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Offline FatalCheese

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2017, 01:30:40 pm »
I'm surprised your LEDs are failing... What voltage are you running through them? If it's too high, that might be the answer to your issue.

I'm just testing them hooking up to a 9V battery - but the plan is to use an Arduino board to control the lights, using a 12V source.  So far I've lost 3 white 2mm bulbs, using the 470ohm resistors that HDAmodelworx included.  They work at first, and then I may grab one, hook up the alligator clips to the wires - magnet wire approx. 12" long - and then there's no joy. I remove the resistor and bulb and plug them in breadboard - the resistor still works, the bulb does not.  And I pitch both, none of the dead bulbs are using a reused resistor.

I'm not Johnny-Soldering Iron, and some times it takes me a few tries to get a clean solder connection when attaching the resistor to the bulb.  Are they sensitive to heat?  Although, we're talking 5-15 secs max of heat applied during each attempt where the iron is touching the bulb pin.  Could that shortening the life?

Thanks,
Brian 
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Offline simi

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2017, 04:32:57 pm »
Not too great that myself - but confirm you have the correct ohm resistor first.  For 12v, 470 ohm sounds about right (for white LEDs).  Perhaps try the next step up?

As for the soldering iron, there really isn't anything to "fry" for resistors AFAIK.  But I HAVE wrecked LEDs with my soldering iron when I've attempted to solder right next to where the leads meet the LED plastic (because I needed the space).  15 seconds seems like a really long time to have the iron in contact with the pin.  Did you tin the pin (which should make the connection easier/faster)?  When I see this done online, the iron is usually on the lead for more like 1-3 seconds.  But I'm not great at soldering either, so I could be wrong about that.

Cheers!

Simi
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Offline whb64

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2017, 07:38:53 pm »
Also if you have some helping hands, clip the alligator clip on the LED so it's between the place you intend to solder and the LED.  This will act as a heat sink and help keep excess heat from the LED.  It won't remove all of it but it will remove most.

Offline FatalCheese

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2017, 10:07:59 pm »
Appreciate everyone's suggestions on the LEDs. I've been a little more cautious about my soldering and how long I'm applying heat. Using helping hands was a great suggestion, thanks @whb64.  No bulbs lost since.

Well, it's been a while - have to travel for work quite a bit, and lately it's been constant commutes to NYC (I live in Seattle), so progress has been pretty slow. I've been debating whether to throw some canopy glue and sandpaper in my overnight bag, and a few pieces in my luggage to work on during down time. I don't know whether that confirms having dedication or having issues. 




For dealing removing the raised phaser inaccuracy, I thought taping around it and sanding it flush (using the tape to let me know when I'm almost flush) would work. It worked about as well as that fool-proof idea to win at Roulette, I once had.

Aside from not being flush, I ended up somehow sanding grooves in the surface. Suffice to say, it looked horrible. 



I ended up sanding the phasers completely off, and filling the gaps. I ended up doing what I was orignally hoping to avoid, which is rescribing lines.

I'm not thrilled about the results, but after applying paint, aztecs, and decals, (and whatever I use for new turrets) I'm hoping this won't stand out like it does now.



This was a frustrating part to install. Easy to bend, and it just was never right afterwards. 
Also, it seems the holes in the model part are too large for the paragrafix part, there is a slight gap. Kicking around re-doing this, but it was a time-suck, and just need to set aside for now.

I attached the washers to form my new saucer nav light fixtures that I had earlier mutilated, and using canopy glue to form the "bulb". This actually looked great for scale. I need to re-do the glue "bulb" as I'm having to re-prime and paint, but should look quite nice.

My bulb failures had me contemplating a dual-bulb system - two bulbs being equidistant between the upper and lower saucer light fixtures, so I could activate a "back-up" bulb in the event one failed. However, with the bulb placed evenly between the top and bottom saucers - there was barely any light getting to the canopy glue "bulb".  It was only when placing the LED right up underneath the fixture, where the light looked an acceptable level. 

I debated to experiment with brighter LEDs, but came to the conclusion there wasn't really the space for two LEDs to be positioned in a way where either LED would result in the same light level in the "bulb". So for now, I'm proceeding with one-bulb per fixture, and will hope that a final stress test of bulbs will be sufficient before sealing.

While I'm using an adhesion promoter, I'm not entirely sure paint is going to stick to the metal washers I used long-term.  Debating metal primer, but ugh! This is less than one square inch of surface I need to prime!

Progress on the saucer - installed my RCS bulbs and some of my LED tape.  I saw someone recommended aluminum tape for light blocking, and decided to give it a try.
I don't know that I'm totally convinced it's really any easier than just painting, considering you can't get everywhere with tape, and still have to paint regardless.

But I guess it's looks cooler!

Cheers,
Brian

« Last Edit: November 16, 2017, 10:09:46 pm by FatalCheese »
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Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2017, 08:24:25 am »
Brian, this is looking awesomely outstanding! (It could just be outstandingly awesome; still can't decide!)

I love what you did with the canopy "bulbs"! Nice trick!

I have used the metallic tape but only on hot spots. Like you said, not sure you can "get everywhere" with the tape. But, at least you are willing to try new techniques!

Keep going! This is shaping up to be an awesome build!

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline neilfsmith

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2018, 03:14:40 pm »
Your build seems to be - like mine is - one learning experience after another!  :) Regarding your lighting issue - is it possible that your light-blocking metallic tape is shorting out the LEDs? Just a thought.

Good luck with the rest of your build and thanks for posting!

Offline jwood314

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2018, 09:31:26 pm »
Your killing it!  Great build!!

Offline FatalCheese

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 11:08:49 am »
Thanks all for the comments and encouragement!  Well, for anyone wondering if you can build this model 5-10 minutes at a time, you can. This project has really brought out the ADHD in me, as I keep working on multiple things as time allows. I been trying to restrict my updates to interesting bits, and skip over the mundane things that have been posted countless times. But well overdue for an update.




This shuttlebay deck has really been a bear. My goal was to have a nice reflecting-polished deck. Seemed like it wouldn't be too hard. I tried acrylic gloss - it clogs my airbrush. Tried thinning that - looses the gloss.

Tried brush-painting it - it turns white when i try to sand it. I tried high gloss acrylic paint - shiny, but not very reflective. After painting and stripping at least 8 times (and all the coats in between).

Finally tried Model Master high-gloss enamel - also quite thick, took a while to find a balanced consistency that didn't clog my airbrush.  I finally ended up with something with a reflective surface. I also switched to micro-sanding pads, starting at 1500 and incrementing to 12,000, which also helped. Little frustrated that I can't seem to get all the sanding scratches out.


Did the trick of heating up the ends of fiber with a solder iron to create small-flat bulbs, that will have a chasing effect eventually.


This is my rec-deck. There are many like it. This one is mine.  It wasn't in STII, but if there was a scene - this movie was made in the 80s, and so I think we can all agree it would have been neutral tones and maroon furniture.

Nothing like a closeup photo to show highlight every imperfection.


The Arboretum, pretty standard. I did try to go for a more natural color of what water looks like in a park, instead of the typical blue. Used actual tiny twigs for the trunks so they do look quite realistic. The gravel is out of scale, and I tried various methods of resizing (like beating the granules with a hammer), without much success. In the interest of progress, I'm moving on. At some point, my OCD may compel me to revisit.




Added the remaining primary hull lights - which quickly made wire placement something I was going to have to deal with. Organized them into wiring "buses" for each control circuit.  I'm sure all you electricians are shaking your fists that it's not efficient (like I could probably use one common neutral) - at this point, I just needed them contained to keep working.

My intention is to have the control board(s) in the base for easier access, and the entire model contain only bulbs, resistors and wiring. It's a lot of wire - I know I could have wired the tape in series and eliminated 80% of the wire - was concerned of one strip failing and causing a cascade fail of the rest.


@neilfsmith - you made an interesting observation about tape and shorting out LEDs. My dead bulbs had occurred prior to using the tape, and I haven't lost any since (knock on wood) - but as I look at the LED tape design with copper tabs touching the tape - um, yeah, that's going to be a problem.  Good catch.



This was another time-suck. As others have pointed out, this bottom saucer dome piece isn't shaped correctly in the kit. They edges should be angled, and the front "light housing" is longer. So I extended each side  and reshaped. The Squadron putty (which I see is popular) was really difficult to sand to the smooth look I wanted. I would wait an hour for curing, then sand it down from 400-1500 and then at some point, a chip or a pit would show up. So I'd re-putty, sand and do it again. And Again. And Again. After switching to the micro-mesh pads - even though it's the same grit as the sandpaper I bought, for some reason, these did a better job - but still could not get a chip-free finish.  It's the bottom of the ship, so I'm not terribly concerned here, but as I move on to more noticeable areas - hoping to have better results.

Who knew there was "cheap" and "premium" versions of sandpaper?



Light-blocking is something I did not anticipate would take so much time. I painted on a thick acrylic in the places where I couldn't cover with aluminum tape. Not only did I still not get everywhere, but the light still seeps throught the paint, and even through the seams of tape, which overlap! So I switched to airbrushing which took 2-3 coats. Was originally planning just to spray the window holes white, but now I realize I'll need to cover all the black with white because I've lost so much reflectivity as a result of the paint.


Cheers,
Brian
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Offline FatalCheese

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2018, 07:21:44 pm »
I think it might be the 23rd century by the time I get this done.

First - have to share.  My 11 yr-old daughter surprised me a few weeks ago that her Girl Scout troop had managed to arrange a tour at Blue Origin.  If you're not aware, the BO offices are the home of the the refit movie model. So I was as giddy as, well...a girl scout, hoping to take some updated detailed photos to share with everyone.  But upon arriving, I had to sign an NDA (which since this info exists on Memory Alpha, I'm don't think I'm breaking) and that included absolutely no photos - no matter how much I pleaded.  But, after entering, there she was - Ol' 1701-A, basking in the atrium sunlight. No glass, no rails - just a 6+ft starship mounted on a floor stand in the middle of the offices. The first thing I did was stand between the nacelles - simply because I could. (and then I begged again for a picture - still No). It looks about the same shape as the photos taken in the Christie's auction. It's interesting, all the imperfections that you see up close that you wonder how this looked so real in the movie. I was hoping it would give me an idea in deciding what the base color will be - but it is the Start Trek V paintjob, which it is pretty much white, like it is in the later movies, unlike the greyish polished steel look from the first 3 movies, so I'm still on the fence there. But it was still amazing. Oh, I also saw some rockets there too - but I'm not supposed to talk about that. :)

Anyways, back to my model, which seems smaller now...

First, some observations.

- The aluminum foil is more trouble than it's worth.  It makes it really easy to short out your lighting (which was probably the source of my previous problems), and it doesn't really reflect much better than white paint, which is much easier to apply.  I don't recommend it.
- While magnet wire take up less physical space - it's really easy to break off from the solider point, and track individual wires  is tough (like when a bulb isn't working - you wiggle the wire at one end, and all the wires at the other end wiggle).



I'm gluing on the sensor bands to the saucer - but when filling the gaps, I've really been struggling with sanding for a smooth seamless look.  I'm using Squadron putty which I've seen others user.  But I am just not getting the results I'm looking for.  I'm using Micro mesh sanding pads. 


At the rougher grits (1500-2400), while sanding, I'm ending up with tiny pits and out tiny pieces from the gaps I'm trying to fill, no matter how lightly I sand.  I try the higher grits, I end up polishing the putty, which at that point, is no longer removing the excess putty.  I've tried waiting as long as 24 hours before sanding. When I try to scribe out the sensor bands,  - again, as gently as I can - at some point, I "pull" out a chunk that makes me want to redo it.

Does anyone have suggestions on a better filler suited for this fine detail?  Or is there another method for doing this?

Cheers,
Brian

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Offline Guns Akimbo

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2018, 10:24:01 pm »
Someone should really come up with an aftermarket photoetch one-piece sensor band "wrap" that encompasses the entire circumference of that saucer. No seams every few segments.

Offline whb64

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2018, 02:07:46 am »
Someone should really come up with an aftermarket photoetch one-piece sensor band "wrap" that encompasses the entire circumference of that saucer. No seams every few segments.
Just a thought, and I have no idea how well this would work, but what about copper guitar pickup tape?  You can get that from extremely thin width to wide.  There is definitely enough on a roll to go completely around the saucer.  The only negative I could see is the surface would have to be completely smooth or any imperfection would show as a bump in the tape.  Just a thought...

Offline jwood314

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2018, 08:54:45 pm »
It is on my list to create a PE sensor band part, but for the DeBoers kit.  I am surprised no one has done this yet.

Offline Guns Akimbo

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Re: It's Not a TMP Refit 1/350, it's a STII:WOK Refit 1/350!
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2018, 11:00:47 pm »
Just a thought, and I have no idea how well this would work, but what about copper guitar pickup tape?  You can get that from extremely thin width to wide.  There is definitely enough on a roll to go completely around the saucer.  The only negative I could see is the surface would have to be completely smooth or any imperfection would show as a bump in the tape.  Just a thought...

Huh. I'm familiar with that since I've built a few electric guitars in my time.  ;D The copper tape would have to be thin for scale, and embossed with the numerous lines of the linear sensor bands.

 




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