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Author Topic: Testing various flat clears over Future (FINISHED TESTING)  (Read 350 times)

Offline Spencer

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Testing various flat clears over Future (FINISHED TESTING)
« on: October 26, 2017, 08:36:11 pm »
Hi everyone,

As I've said in some of my WIP posts, I'll be spraying Future as a gloss coat on my current build, then followed by a some kind of flat clear.
Since this is my first time spraying Future, I'll practice for a bit and once I have that down, will be trying various flat/matte finishes.

I think this is the best thread to put my testing and results in, and rather than do it all and post everything at once, having a discussion while
things happen would be better.

So, for the first post:

I have an "old" 1:350 TOS Enterprise saucer (with the grid lines) I'll be using for testing. It's big and relatively flat and I have a replacement smooth
saucer anyway. I've partitioned it into seven sections and after a wash, sprayed some Duplicolor Adhesion Promoter and Duplicolor Gray Filler Primer.
I'm going to treat this as any other paint job I'd be doing.



I have a bottle of Testor's #1226 Flat Dark Aircraft Grey I decanted from an old rattle can a while ago. Didn't know what I'd use it for, so it will get
used here for a color coat. It's still a little thick so I'll thin it a bit and paint most of the area in each wedge tomorrow. Sometime early next week, I'll
be spraying Future over the enamel and then give that at least a couple days to fully cure.



In Post #2, I'll give a lineup of all the clear coats I currently have to try out.

Spencer
« Last Edit: Today at 12:50:09 pm by Spencer »

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2017, 08:45:41 pm »
In this post ... I present all the clear coats I'll be testing out over Future.

These flat clears are what is available within driving distance and/or easy enough to get online.



Here is a detailed listing, with most of the information I have collected on each so far. More after the list ...

============================================================================================================

Krylon Matte Finish (1311) - 11oz. Spray Can
   PRICE:
      5.00+ USD
   DRY TO TOUCH:
      10 minutes
   DRY TO HANDLE:
      3 hours
   RECOAT WINDOW:
      If an additional coat is needed, let the first coat dry for 2 minutes before applying.
   APPLICATION CONDITIONS:
      70-80F, low humidity; do not use in high humidity, 10-12 inches from surface
   CLEAN UP:
      Lacquer thinner

   COMPOUNDS
      Acetone
      Toluene
      Propane
      Butane

   THE PLAN:
      Spray light and build up ...

============================================================================================================

Krylon UV-Resistant Clear Acyrlic Coating - Matte (1309) - 11oz. Spray Can
   PRICE:
      7.00+ USD
   DRY TO TOUCH:
      10 minutes
   DRY TO HANDLE:
      5 hours
   APPLICATION CONDITIONS:
      70-80F, low humidity; do not use in high humidity, 10-12 inches from surface

   COMPOUNDS
      Acetone
      Toluene
      Propane
      Butane

   THE PLAN:
      Spray light and build up ...

============================================================================================================

Valspar Project Perfect Top Coat Flat (#84237) - 12oz. Spray Can
   PRICE:
      4.00+ USD
   Dry Time @ 77F and 50% Relative Humidity
      Recoat: Anytime
      Dry to Touch: 30 minutes
   Application Temperature: 65-90F
   Hold can 8-10 inches from surface

   COMPOUNDS
      Acetone
      Isobutyl acetate
      Propane

   THE PLAN:
      Spray light and build up ...

============================================================================================================

Testors Dullcote Spray Lacquer - 3oz. Spray Can
   PRICE:
      4.00+ USD

   Apply in light coats 10-12" from surface ... really??
   Reapply at any time

   COMPOUNDS (>10% by Weight)
      Isobutanol
      Ethanol
      Propane
      Aliphatic Hydrocarbon

   THE PLAN:
      Dust coat and lightly build up ...

============================================================================================================

Tamiya X-21 Flat BASE (23 mL bottle) + Future
   PRICE (X-21):
      ~2.50 USD
   X-21 is NOT a clear coat! An additive to make glossy paint flat!
   Suggested ratios:
      1 part flat base to 3  parts Future = very flat
            1 part flat base to 10 parts Future = flat
            1 part flat base to 15 parts Future = satin
   No thinning required, but must be very well mixed.
   Avoid Windex for cleanup, will gum up with Tamiya
      Use either Simple Green, rubbing alcohol, denaturated alcohol or lacquer thinner
   Cure time is roughly the same as Future
   
   COMPOUNDS (X-21):
      ??? Couldn't find any info ...

   THE PLAN:
      Spray in very light coats, like you would regular Future. ~15 PSI about 6" from model
      in light coats ... sometimes Future with a little isopropyl alchohol can help.
      REF: http://www.swannysmodels.com/TheCompleteFuture.html

============================================================================================================

Model Master Flat Clear Acryl #4636 (1 oz bottle)
   PRICE:
      4.00+ USD
   No thinning required (claim) but a few drops of Airbrush Thinner, #50495, suggested by most
   Air pressure should be approximately 18-20 PSI
   Cleanup with hot water (claim) or Airbrush Cleaner #50497
   Dried paint cleanup with solvent #50495 (good incentive not to let it happen!)
   Acrylics will dry to the touch in minutes; they require 24 hours for a full cure (claim)

   COMPOUNDS (> 2.5% by Weight):
      Propylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether
      Talc
      Dipropylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether

   THE PLAN:
      Spray light and build up ...

============================================================================================================

Alclad II Lacquer - Klear Kote Flat (ALC 314) - 4 oz. bottle
   PRICE:
      ~7.00 USD
   Pre-thinned for airbrush use
   ALCLAD should be sprayed at 15-20psi
   Spray 2 - 3 inches away from the model
   Use the airbrush like a paint brush not an aerosol
   Shake well before use
   Apply one of these primers before using Regular ALCLAD:
      Alclad Primers
      Tamiya Plastic Primers-white or grey
      Auto Primer-white or grey
      FUTURE / Klear
      floor sealer/polish
   10 minutes between coats
   At leat 1 hour before handling
   Cleanup with ALC 307 or lacquer thinner

   COMPOUNDS:
      ??? Couldn't really find any information on the specifics ...

   THE PLAN:
      Spray very lightly and slowly build up ...

============================================================================================================



I'm not a big fan of lacquers because of the smell and cleanup, but if they turn out the best I'll use them. I'm the most interested in the
Tamiya Flat Base + Future mix.

That's it for now. If you have any other suggestions or experiences, feel free to discuss. Being specific would be helpful as well.

Cheers,
Spencer
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 09:04:54 pm by Spencer »

Offline greg

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2017, 01:07:00 am »
I know of at least two people who have had models ruined by Testors Dull Cote yellowing their models. One guy on the Starship Modeler forum had both a Buck Rogers Starfighter and a Millenium Falcon yellowed due to that stuff, and I know another guy from YouTube who had a Macross Valkyrie yellow on him after using it, too.

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 11:34:40 am »
I know of at least two people who have had models ruined by Testors Dull Cote yellowing their models. One guy on the Starship Modeler forum had both a Buck Rogers Starfighter and a Millenium Falcon yellowed due to that stuff, and I know another guy from YouTube who had a Macross Valkyrie yellow on him after using it, too.


Was that out of the spray can or the bottle?
I've read in various places that Dullcote is actually more like an enamel that is thinned with some kind of lacquer thinner.
If that's the case, then I can certainly see why it would yellow with time, especially over a light color and/or sprayed on too thick.
Like I said earlier, I'm trying to avoid the stuff and hope one of these alternatives works better for me.

Cheers,
Spencer

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2017, 03:07:10 pm »
The color is now on the saucer.
Had to thin the paint a bit. Switched to the largest nozzle/needle and upped the pressure to ~26 PSI. It sprayed without hesitation.
Put down some fresh tape also.



The more I stare at this color, the more it seems like a nice choice for this ship. Anyway, 2-3 days for the enamel to cure ...

Spencer

Offline LynnInDenver

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 09:07:16 pm »
I know of at least two people who have had models ruined by Testors Dull Cote yellowing their models. One guy on the Starship Modeler forum had both a Buck Rogers Starfighter and a Millenium Falcon yellowed due to that stuff, and I know another guy from YouTube who had a Macross Valkyrie yellow on him after using it, too.


Was that out of the spray can or the bottle?
I've read in various places that Dullcote is actually more like an enamel that is thinned with some kind of lacquer thinner.
If that's the case, then I can certainly see why it would yellow with time, especially over a light color and/or sprayed on too thick.
Like I said earlier, I'm trying to avoid the stuff and hope one of these alternatives works better for me.

Cheers,
Spencer

Even if it's enamel thinner in the Dullcote, this makes me doubly glad that I made the decision to switch to lacquers and acrylics. I actually haven't clearcoated any models yet, and this would've added to the issues I've found with enamels, at least in the Testor's brand.

Offline starsiegeplayer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 10:44:29 pm »
I personally have had dullcote yellow on me for some models.  Others it has not.

I think the best variable to control this is to use the dullcote sparingly.  This is why I will seal the model with glosscote first, then use thin mist coats of dullcote to tone the surface down gradually.


If you are interested in the ingredients

https://www.rustoleum.com/MSDS/ENGLISH/1261T.pdf

« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 10:49:36 pm by starsiegeplayer »

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2017, 10:57:59 pm »
I personally have had dullcote yellow on me for some models.  Others it has not.

Yeah ...
I talked with a buddy of mine this evening who has used both glosscote and dullcote. He has had BOTH yellow on him
as well, especially when he sprayed on glosscote too thick.

Regardless of what this stuff is, I don't think I'll be using it in the future. I've found dullcote to spray on very nice and uniform when done right, and
since I know what to expect from it over glosscote, I'm using it as a kind of control here.

Spencer

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2017, 07:28:27 pm »
After spending most of the day in bed ... decided to try spraying Future.

First, I wet sanded the saucer with some 800 grit paper and buffed it a little with and old cloth to get it smooth.
Then a little rubbing alcohol to remove any residues and finally a tack cloth.

I sprayed the Future straight from the airbrush at 15 PSI and few inches from the surface.
It took several light coats before it started turning glossy, and I resisted the urge to do too much tonight.
I'd call it a success. I'll see what it looks like in the morning.

Still wet, unfinished, and a little blurry, but shiny!


What surprised me the most, but not entirely unexpected, was how little I used for how much I sprayed.

Will try getting the final coats of Future on sometime in the next couple days.

Cheers,
Spencer
« Last Edit: October 30, 2017, 11:03:57 pm by Spencer »

Online Liquid Electron

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2017, 10:57:36 pm »
I've been doing military models lately more than I have sci-fi, but next year that Reliant is going to be done!

Anyway, I use...this sounds weird.  Liquitex Matte Varnish with their Airbrush Medium.  Flat as a pancake. 

Paint my tanks/planes, Future them, decals, weathering, Liquitex.  Done.  Some of them are 5-6 years old now and show no signs of yellowing.  I like it a lot.  Get quite a bit of it for the price considering how much you spray.  (Not much!)
To seek out new kits and modeling skills.  To boldly build what several people have built before.

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2017, 08:47:24 am »
Anyway, I use...this sounds weird.  Liquitex Matte Varnish with their Airbrush Medium.  Flat as a pancake. 

Interesting. I'll see if Michael's or Hobby Lobby has some later in the week. I've been practicing on the lower saucer as well, with just a primer coat, so
lots of extra space to try other things.



I sprayed on another coat this morning, and it's pretty darn smooth. Not show finish, but good enough. Definitely looks like the saucer has just been pulled
out of some water.

On a more unfortunate note, my airbrush tip broke off at the threads (my dumbness as I tend to over-tighten everything), but I managed to get the threads
out and a replacement is on the way. Might be a sign to invest in a second airbrush. Been looking for a nice single action for large uniform coats like what I'm
doing here.

Cheers,
Spencer
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 08:59:55 am by Spencer »

Offline starsiegeplayer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2017, 02:16:47 pm »
I have had good results with the acrylic versions of Testors dull and glosscote. 

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2017, 02:46:22 pm »
I have had good results with the acrylic versions of Testors dull and glosscote.

Acrylic versions??

Do you have any links where I could find some?
« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 02:48:54 pm by Spencer »

Offline starsiegeplayer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2017, 08:32:49 pm »
Acrylic versions??

Do you have any links where I could find some?

Description:  flatsemi-glossgloss
Product number:  463646374638

I can find these at my local hobby stores.  If you search for the product number (e.g. Testors 4636) you can find it online easily too.

https://www.amazon.com/4636-Flat-Clear-Acrylic-FM02015/dp/B001VDI24G

Offline Spencer

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Re: Testing various flat clears over Future.
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2017, 09:04:42 pm »
Description:  flatsemi-glossgloss[/color]
Product number:  463646374638[/color]

I can find these at my local hobby stores.  If you search for the product number (e.g. Testors 4636) you can find it online easily too.

https://www.amazon.com/4636-Flat-Clear-Acrylic-FM02015/dp/B001VDI24G


Ahh ... I thought you meant actual Testors branded and not Model Master. I do have some of that to try!

« Last Edit: October 31, 2017, 09:07:23 pm by Spencer »

 




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