Welcome, %1$s. Please login or register. - Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire  (Read 239 times)

Offline simi

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
  • JUST enough knowledge to do some serious damage
Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« on: September 26, 2018, 07:41:28 pm »
OK folks - super dumb question and possible problem.  Got me a 1/1000 TOS enterprise I'm lighting.  Each nacelle has an LED.  I trenched the struts to run my 30awg magnet wire.  But, without thinking - I used Testors Cement Glue https://smile.amazon.com/Testors-3507AT-Liquid-Plastic-1-Ounce/dp/B00005CA7S/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1538008506&sr=8-3&keywords=testors+model+cement to secure the wires into the trenches I carved out instead of CA glue.  Does anyone know if this type of glue is "safe" for the magnet wire insulation?  I do have an extra kit, and I guess I'll probably find out tomorrow when it's cured.  But my worst case scenario is that is "sorta" works, I put the whole kit together, and the lighting is intermittent due to slight amount of short circuiting occurring. I'd rather have it fail fast if this is going to cause problems and re-do it now - but maybe the cement is just fine?  Anyone know off hand?  Can't believe I did that - but oh wells...

Thanks!

Cheers!

Simi
As a software architect, I'm pretty darn good.  As someone with knowledge of building things in the real world, well, I'm a software architect.

Offline Spencer

  • Radio Astronomer
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
  • "Well ... let's play this out logically then ..."
Re: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2018, 09:48:08 pm »
What kind of magnet wire is it? The "enamel" coated kind (actually a kind of polymer film) or the type with an actual thin sheathing?

According to the cement's MSDS, you have:
Xylene                              25-50%
n-Butyl Acetate
Ethylbenzene                     10-25%
Aromatic Petroleum Distillates
Naphthalene
Toluene                             0.1-1%
 
I can't say for sure, but the bold ones would have me a little worried, given they are pretty strong for stripping/dissolving a lot of stuff.
I wouldn't think the cement itself would be conductive, but if you've twisted power and ground together, then maybe you could get a short.

I'd say to take a scrap of your wire and apply some of the cement to the end of it and see what happens. I don't have any to try myself.

The intermittent lighting may likely be due to something else. Bad solder joint, the LEDs getting too hot during soldering etc. I know you have to get
the solder pretty darn hot to melt through the coated stuff.

Spencer
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 09:51:40 pm by Spencer »

Offline Tshark

  • Lieutenant
  • **
  • Posts: 59
Re: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2018, 08:16:13 am »
I agree with Spencer that you should check all your other connections first (first rule of troubleshooting start with the easiest fix first).  Does the intermittent coincide with moving the model.  If so then the problem may not be due to the wires in the trenches.  The glue may have dissolved the enamel insulation of the magnetic wire, but I would expect it to cause a permanent short rather than intermittent. 

Sounds like some disassembly may be required (we have all been there!), but this should be fixable.

Hope this helps

Offline simi

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
  • JUST enough knowledge to do some serious damage
Re: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2018, 03:43:11 pm »
What kind of magnet wire is it? The "enamel" coated kind (actually a kind of polymer film) or the type with an actual thin sheathing?

According to the cement's MSDS, you have:
Xylene                              25-50%
n-Butyl Acetate
Ethylbenzene                     10-25%
Aromatic Petroleum Distillates
Naphthalene
Toluene                             0.1-1%
 
I can't say for sure, but the bold ones would have me a little worried, given they are pretty strong for stripping/dissolving a lot of stuff.
I wouldn't think the cement itself would be conductive, but if you've twisted power and ground together, then maybe you could get a short.

I'd say to take a scrap of your wire and apply some of the cement to the end of it and see what happens. I don't have any to try myself.

The intermittent lighting may likely be due to something else. Bad solder joint, the LEDs getting too hot during soldering etc. I know you have to get
the solder pretty darn hot to melt through the coated stuff.

Spencer

Wow!  That's impressive investigation, Spencer!  A++ for effort - and I do appreciate it.  So here's the situation - my post is a bit confusing.  There is NO intermittent issues with the lighting shorting out (yep  Tshark - I too have been there).  My concern was IF that started to happen (like I said, been there before :)) I'd rather the thing just fail right now rather than down the road.

So - here's the current situation.  After the glue cured overnight - everything is still tip-top.  I didn't twist the wires, but they are side-by-side - so this is not conclusive - but it looks like the insulation held up fine.  I'll report back on this thread if things to go awry later on.

One more follow-up question - is it correct that the testors is a "chemical bond" (meaning it's melting/fusing the plastic) and that CA is a mechanical bond (doesn't melt things)?  That was my assumption anyhow.

So I think things are good...so far.  PLUS, according to (I think) Riker, I have 2 of the following 3 things on my side:

Quote
Riker: "Fate. Protects fools (that would definitely be me), little children, and ships named Enterprise."

Cheers!

Simi
As a software architect, I'm pretty darn good.  As someone with knowledge of building things in the real world, well, I'm a software architect.

Offline Spencer

  • Radio Astronomer
  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 763
  • "Well ... let's play this out logically then ..."
Re: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2018, 05:47:39 pm »
No worries ... it took a whole 30 seconds to google the cement to find the datasheet.
And it was a question I happened to be curious to know the answer to.

If things haven't failed because of the cement by now, I doubt they would later on.
The enamel coating may very well be resistant to most solvents.

But yes, "cement" softens and fuses the the plastic parts, especially if they are under pressure, and CA forms
a bonding layer between the two. But if your cement is thick enough, you can use it for gap filling
and embedding things. Boyd actually talks about it a bit in some of his earliest build videos.

Spencer

Offline scottminium

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 1147
  • There are submarines, and targets.
Re: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2018, 04:40:34 pm »
My experience with magnet wire is that the stuff is pretty stinkin' tough.  If you don't have problems now it is unlikely to be a problem in the future.  For myself, I've quit on magnet wire as it is too hard to work with.  I've taken to beading wire which is nearly as small yet much less 'kinky.'  Not that I mind kinky.  Nevermind.
"I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey, and reminds us to cherish every moment... because they'll never come again."

Offline simi

  • Admiral
  • *****
  • Posts: 636
  • JUST enough knowledge to do some serious damage
Re: Testors Cement Glue/Magnet wire
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2018, 06:36:36 pm »
Yeah - magnet wire is great for those REALLY small places - but I've since moved on to wrapping wire when I can.  So far, so good on the kit lighting - I think it's going to work just fine.

Cheer!

Simi
As a software architect, I'm pretty darn good.  As someone with knowledge of building things in the real world, well, I'm a software architect.

 




Enterprise © Bloc