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Author Topic: More painting woes  (Read 375 times)

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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More painting woes
« on: January 03, 2019, 12:10:24 pm »
All,

Sometimes it's tough to admit that I need help; especially when I have that "Admiral" thingy next to my name! Then I remember the rank is about how many posts I have made, not the experience I have, which only means "I talk alot!"

Okay, I am having issues with my paint staying put. I washed the model and sprayed every nook and crevice with primer. I am using a hand mixed concoction of acrylic paint. I have thinned it with water to get it to go through the Air Brush. It appears to go on fine, but, even if I let it sit for a few days, the paint rubs off with just my finger handling - not to mention it pulls up when I try to mask it for the next color.

Any tips? Am I making the paint too thin? Is the model surface not clean enough?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline RossW

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 12:17:30 pm »
All,

Sometimes it's tough to admit that I need help; especially when I have that "Admiral" thingy next to my name! Then I remember the rank is about how many posts I have made, not the experience I have, which only means "I talk alot!"

Okay, I am having issues with my paint staying put. I washed the model and sprayed every nook and crevice with primer. I am using a hand mixed concoction of acrylic paint. I have thinned it with water to get it to go through the Air Brush. It appears to go on fine, but, even if I let it sit for a few days, the paint rubs off with just my finger handling - not to mention it pulls up when I try to mask it for the next color.

Any tips? Am I making the paint too thin? Is the model surface not clean enough?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Steve
I am sure we have all had our share of paint woes, even the more experienced modellers among us, so do not sweat it.

But we need more info: what type of material is the model (styrene, resin, vinyl)? What primer are you using? Did you wash the kit with dish washing detergent first? Is the primer coming off as well, or just the paint? What type of paint are you using?

One thing I would say is to use the recommended thinner for the paint rather than water; that could be the problem right there.

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 12:40:12 pm »
Ross, thanks for the quick response.


But we need more info: what type of material is the model (styrene, resin, vinyl)? What primer are you using? Did you wash the kit with dish washing detergent first? Is the primer coming off as well, or just the paint? What type of paint are you using?

One thing I would say is to use the recommended thinner for the paint rather than water; that could be the problem right there.

what type of material is the model (styrene, resin, vinyl)? Model is 1/1400 Enterprise C Polystyrene model

What primer are you using? Krylon 12 oz Fusion for Plastic, grey

Did you wash the kit with dish washing detergent first? Yes

Is the primer coming off as well, or just the paint? The primer is still there, unless I sand it off. The paint seems to not adhere to the primer though and it seem to wipe off with light handling - however some places take more punishment.

What type of paint are you using? Product Title: Apple Barrel Matte Finish Acrylic Craft Paint by Plaid, Dolphin Grey, 2 oz.

"recommended thinner for the paint rather than water; that could be the problem right there" Agreed! Do you have a recommendation for an acrylic thinner?

Thanks again. I hope the additional info helps in forming your advice.

Steve
"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline RossW

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 02:44:36 pm »
I have not used that primer before, but I am leery of general use primers. Some have had great success, but I have found Tamiya primers (lacquer) are best if you must spray from a can. If you have an airbrush, I suggest Badger Stynlrez - it is acrylic but wet sandable, which is a must for me.

However, if your primer is not coming off then I would think it is the paint you are using - Apple Barrel is craft paint and I do not think it is very durable. You could experiment with thinning with windshield washing solution (which is what I use to clean my airbrush with any acrylic paint) but you may need to use a hobby paint instead.

Offline Spencer

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2019, 04:57:07 pm »
I agree with RossW about primers.

Craft paint is usually pretty thick and requires a good bit of thinning, but too much plain water and you weaken the paint's polymers by dilution. If you want to use it, you might need
to use an acrylic medium (plus some water) meant for airbrushing.

I've been toying around with Golden Airbrushing Medium on Vallejo Model Color which is pretty thick and gotten decent results.

Liquitex also makes an airbrush medium that I tried once with their matte varnish and was pretty darned impressed.
http://scifimodelaction.com/sfmaforum/index.php?topic=7164.msg92053#msg92053

But just as importantly I found, you have to let the paint *completely* dry, I'm talking several days if necessary. If all the water doesn't evaporate out,
you might have trouble.


Spencer
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 04:59:25 pm by Spencer »
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Offline LynnInDenver

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2019, 07:48:26 pm »
It's always possible that the paint has effectively hit the model already dry, which would definitely cause it to just sit on the surface instead of adhering to it.

Offline Tshark

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 08:37:00 am »
It's always possible that the paint has effectively hit the model already dry, which would definitely cause it to just sit on the surface instead of adhering to it.

I was thinking the same thing.

Offline Shawn McClure

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 11:17:25 am »
Hang in there Steve and whatever you do never listen to me about any kind of paint because I have absolutely no idea what I'm talking about.

Shawn
To build or not to build.... that is the question.   The answer.... build... Duh.

Offline Kitguy3

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 02:05:28 pm »
Definitely sounds like the paint is hitting the model dry. Apple Barrel by the way has a very bad habit of drying in the airbrush even with normal cleaning it can still build up.
Model long and prosper.

Offline MSgtUSAFRet

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2019, 07:25:11 am »
Thanks all for the great advice!

I have been reading a bit as well and realize I've added too much water to the paint (other model in sites recommend 30% water to 70% paint mix); I exceeded that ratio by quite a bit.

I can't strip it without damaging the internal electronics; unless you Masters know how I can do that and preserve my lighting?!

I am going to do a test and use 600 grit sandpaper on an area and use some premixed airbrush paint to see if stripping is necessary. I'll let you know.

It's always possible that the paint has effectively hit the model already dry, which would definitely cause it to just sit on the surface instead of adhering to it.

Thanks Lynn and T-Shark. Followup question - wouldn't the paint being dry before hitting the model result in froking - I think thats the right term? I had a similar problem with this on my NSEA Protector.

Let me know...

Thanks again for all the help!

Steve

"To be honest with you, Picard, a significant number of my crew members have expressed a desire to return even knowing the odds. Some because they can't bear to live without their loved ones, some because they don't like the idea of slipping out in the middle of a fight."

Offline Tshark

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2019, 08:08:50 am »
I am not familiar with the term "froking".  If you plan on repainting with the same paint, just thinned differently, then perhaps you do not need to do that much striping of the old paint.  A good rub down to remove loose paint with a tack cloth, light sanding, then tack cloth again.  Perhaps do a final color paint then use a clear coat spray such as they use for charcoal drawings.  Be sure to experiment on a scrap piece first.  After the "setting" coat you should be able to handle the model and decal without too much problem.

Just an idea

Offline starsiegeplayer

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Re: More painting woes
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 02:18:40 pm »
Thanks all for the great advice!

I have been reading a bit as well and realize I've added too much water to the paint (other model in sites recommend 30% water to 70% paint mix); I exceeded that ratio by quite a bit.

I can't strip it without damaging the internal electronics; unless you Masters know how I can do that and preserve my lighting?

Since the paint is not adhering in thr first place, wiping it down with windex may take the Paint off.

 




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